The Debate 3 of 10 David Mamet
History's Greatest Question
Why did God become a man?
The proposition: Jesus is God come to earth in human flesh. Yes or No?
Moderator Hull:
If we could all be seated, please, we better get started. Mamet has been pacing around backstage mumbling something about politicians being whores and prosperity preachers being worse. He’s not in a good mood. He just wrote a new screenplay. I mean during the break. You give him thirty minutes and he will present the world with a new movie, a Soviet blockbuster, Me and My Tractor. A Russian farmer spends twelve hours a day on his tractor and thinks about the world.
If you didn’t know, David Mamet, playwright, director, and screenwriter is not on the Mount Rushmore for legendary screenwriters. He has his own mountain for two reasons. First, he is better than any of them and second, they voted 4-0, no Jews on their mountain. Such greats as Thornton Wilder, Pulitzer Prize winner for Our Town and The Skin of Our Teeth, who Mamet can’t stand. I saw both and they were really stinkers so, David, I am with you on that. Or Tennessee Williams, author of The Glass Menagerie and Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. Suddenly Last Summer, OK, Elizabeth Taylor in her prime which lasted about one hot summer. How about James Dalton Trumbo, Roman Holiday, Exodus, Spartacus, Thirty Seconds over Tokyo? Tom Clancy, The Hunt for Red October, The Sum of All Fears, Clear and Present Danger, Patriot Games—who cares if they were not presented on the stage—he is on the Mount Rushmore of American Writers. Of course, Clancy didn’t win any proper writing awards. He was pro-military, a conservative, and no conservative wins those kinds of things. It would be like Arnold Schwarzenegger getting a Tony Award for The Terminator.
Ladies and Gentlemen, without further ado, whatever ado means, (I think it means without any further fuss or trivialities) David Mamet, speaking against the proposition.
Proposition: Jesus is God come to earth in human flesh.
Mamet:
If there is anything worse than one Jew it is two Jews because a debate breaks out. So, two Jews, Klavan and I, arguing about Jesus is hardly unique. If I didn’t know better I’d think it’s July in the Catskills. Some of you may have heard of the east coast summer escape for Jews from the heat and hustle of hot the streets of New York City. There was a lot more going on in the Catskills than Patrick Swayze and Jennifer Grey getting it on in Dirty Dancing, not a bad screen play, not a good one either. I can hear the ghosts of Shecky Green, Buddy Hackett, Don Rickles, and Henny Youngman—not a one of them followed Jesus. If they had, they would have been disowned by their families, rejected by their fellow comedians, and no one would have ever seen them perform except their customers at the deli when they served the matza ball soup.
Even Mr. Klavan had to go as crazy as Nietzsche and come back from insanity to go against his father and family to follow this Jewish Rabbi from Nazareth. Klavan even tells a story about his father catching him doing something worse than cocaine—reading the New Testament—and in great anger warned him never to do that again. And what his father feared happened—his son converted and the family never recovered. So here we are, two Jews arguing about a particular Jew who lived 2500 years ago. I guess my point is that we lose one once in a while and they go off and join the cult, they join the stepchild of Judaism, the sect that came up with a great story—Christians. And you know what a sucker I am for a good story. I contend that a good joke and the Bible have some very important characteristics in common. Let me show you what I mean.
“Two octopuses walk into a laundromat.”
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
In both cases I’ve got your attention. You know octopuses don’t walk, you know they wouldn’t be in a laundromat, because you know Octopuses live in water and a laundromat has water. You expect there is a surprise coming and that it will make you laugh—that is the pay off. So, you go along for the laugh.
In the second case, I’ve also got your attention. “I’ve just promised to tell you the origin of life itself, how it started, who started it, who created everything, and how we all fit into it. Until Einstein, the science community presented the world as eternal, no beginning or end, and humans as temporary intruders. After E = mc2 was proven, it was known there was a beginning and that paved the way for the Big Bang, meaning there was a Big Banger. It opened the door for God.
The Bible is a great story, but it is a myth, not real or historical, as much as it teaches deeper truths about us. It tells us about human nature, the first thing Adam does in Genesis is rat out his wife. It’s her fault. This proves that we are not, by nature, good people. Eve was deceived, Adam went along and then blamed her. So, what’s new, this is who we are. I want to establish, I believe in God, I am a student of the Torah, I am a conservative. I woke up one day and decided that I could count and think for myself, I didn’t need the state or elites tell me what I should be thinking and feeling.
As for Jesus, the poor putz, he got it in his mind that he was Messiah. He was wrong, he missed it. He seemed to be a child prodigy stumping the Rabbis when he was twelve. He didn’t seem to grow out of it, but somehow grew into it. At first, he humored them, and they thought of him as a little mascot, someone they would see again later when he entered Rabbinical training. I would need Jordan Peterson to explain via some Jungian jungle of psychological morass, how Jesus entered into this grandiose delusion. Unfortunately, he got what he knew he would, considering the blasphemous utterings and the claiming of divinity. The Gospel of John tells us that once he made his claims, the Pharisees who controlled religion, doubled their efforts to kill him.[1] He told his disciples they would kill him, but he went ahead with it, almost like David Koresh in Waco. A self-fulfilling prophecy.
Kind of crazy to think somehow God had sex with a fourteen-year-old girl and his son was born of a virgin. Sounds more like Allah than Yahweh. If there is one thing a woman isn’t—after intercourse with the creator of the universe—a virgin. His claims were outrageous, I know what C.S. Lewis said, that either Jesus was a liar, a lunatic, a legend, or God. He was none of the above. He was a prophet, a teacher, a well-meaning young man who got over his skis. Then, at the last moment, he tried to get out of it. He cried out to his “Father” to get out of it, a great tragedy for him and his disciples. Almost all of them were killed for it, books have been written, including the New Testament. It’s a great story with a tragic ending. A big waste of a good Jew, but what’s new? But one thing I am sure of. He was not God come to earth in the flesh. He didn’t come from anywhere and he didn’t go anywhere. Now like Churchill after one of his historic speeches in the House of Commons on the danger of the Third Reich, you boo, and I will sit down.
Moderator Hull
Thank you David Mamet, you really are good at making things up. As you were creating and rewriting history, I was struck by how William Shakespeare couldn’t rise above his antisemitism when he wrote The Merchant of Venice. Shakespeare was a man of his own culture, it was in 16th century England and it was the cultural norm to hate the Jews. Today we would call him “woke.” After all, he was in the theater, he built the Old Globe on the Thames, and men played the roles of women, big surprise. In a strange way, it seems you couldn’t rise above your own Semitic heritage as you have chosen some authority—it could be Jewish history and more specifically, contemporary American Jewish history, to be higher and more authoritative than the Torah and its confirming document, the New Testament. Could you speak, after which we will render a Verdict? Sorry, Paul Newman, the star of that great film you wrote, can’t be here, he is Dancing with the Stars somewhere between Heaven and Dante’s Inferno. Almost forgot, could you speak to the statement of Jesus in John’s gospel:
“You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me! Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life … If you really believed Moses, you would believe me, because he wrote about me. But since you don’t believe what he wrote, how will you believe what I say?” [2]
I know you said you could have fixed the ending of that great film, Man on Fire, 2004, starring Denzel Washington, or possibly the earlier version with Scott Glenn, 1987. I can’t wait to see how you unravel yourself from this conundrum you have created for yourself. I assume you believed Moses, or possibly you would like to put forth the absurd claim that Genesis is a compilation of various authors and collections of manuscripts and points of view. It seems to me, Mr. Mamet, that you have a decision to make. Either the Bible is a human book written by men seeking God or it is a divine book written by God seeking all of humankind. Who wrote it? Either scripture is your highest authority or you have another top authority. Do you want to know God or know all about God? Do you want to cut him down to size and trust in your own authority and reason? Yes, he used men to write the Bible, [3] but he was the author. If you choose to believe in God’s authorship, God’s authority, then you must heed the words of Jesus … Isn’t that right David?
Give it some thought Mr. Mamet, time for a break while we all reflect. I can see how a few have already slipped into the lobby to get a drink. Oh, Mamet himself has left the room, suppose He is looking to escape. Hey, Security! You guys in the tight shorts and bowties, Chippy and Dale. Boys, lock the doors!
Moderator Hull
Twenty-five minutes later Moderator Hull calls everyone together. OK, the food is gone, we closed it all down. Once again, please be seated, Master Mamet has returned, like General MacArthur, he has kept his promise, he will now return fire. Please remove your mirrored sunglasses, General.
Mamet:
Mr. Hull, you remind me of the old saw, all German humor is about the bathroom, all French humor is about the bedroom, all Jewish humor is about the mind, irony, ambiguity—and Bill Hull’s humor is amateur hour at the Saturday afternoon burlesque matinee. Mr. Hull, you give satire a bad name. There is no business like no business, and looking at your social network numbers, I’d suggest retirement. In fact, this entire debate might not exist. This all could be some dream you are having, some wild fantasy, get an MRI Mr. Hull, today!
Ladies and Gentlemen, I am not sure you have heard me. I’m very much like you, except I’m much smarter, or Jewish, depends on how you want to say it. It’s in my blood to be skeptical, but also, I have had many conversions in my life. I was liberal, now I am conservative. I have learned the most important word in Hollywood is “NO!” quickly followed by some hand gesture or suggestion that someone do something anatomically impossible. If you want to keep your soul and not be a drugstore whore, you must learn to say NO! I can’t tell you exactly why, but the idea that God became a man, lowered himself to being a human, well, it runs deeply against my grain, challenges my integrity as a Jew, and I must say, “NO!” I can’t explain it, it’s a mystery. There is something about being Jewish that makes it hard to follow this first century Jew.[4]
And for these words Mr. Hull has told me to deal with, I can’t deal with them, I don’t understand them. Jesus and his words are profound, they are penetrating, and I don’t have any easy answers. I know the New Testament says that we Jews have been given a spirit of stupor, that means we are blinded and stubborn. We already know that, that is who we are. Maybe one day, something will change and we, as a people, will change our minds. But as for me, this I know, it is what Micah the prophet wrote, “… O people, the Lord has told you what is good, and this is what he requires of you: to do what is right, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.” Micah 6:8
I think that we can’t change the world except by living like the prophet suggests. How can we effect cultural change? We can’t directly, only indirectly. Consider the oyster. Oysters make pearls. The oyster can’t actually use the pearl or understand its reason for existence. Someone else must take the pearl and use it. But if the oyster doesn’t make the pearl, it will go crazy. The oyster must do it, that’s what it is for. We are like the oyster, we make the pearls, the pearls are our lives. Then an artist, a politician, or a captain of industry takes the pearl and uses it to effect cultural change. You get Dallas Willard, Professor in the School of Philosophy at USC. Mother Theresa in the streets of Calcutta, C.S. Lewis on the BBC comforting a nation during World War II by reading Mere Christianity, you get Manny behind the counter at 7/11 treating everyone he meets like they were Jesus. [5] The rest of it is out of our control. It is the salt and light thing.
I can’t quit without leaving you with a chuckle. Recently a woman in London appeared on a morning show because she claimed to have changed her dog’s nature. She had made him a vegetarian. It had taken several months and a lot of training, but she claimed that her German Shepherd now preferred veggies to meat. The Morning Show put the dog to the test. Placed before the dog was a bowl of broccoli and a bowl of beef. The dog was released he buried his snout in the beef. It was his nature to eat beef, and even diligent training couldn’t change his nature. It’s like the convicted murderer on death row who had been there for over ten years committed to a plant-based diet. When asked what he wanted for his last meal, he said, “I will take a salad, hold the dressing.” No, he went Hannibal Lector and ordered a rib eye steak with lobster. Ye old Surf and Turf. And you think we can change our natures—the flesh never improves.
“The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is? But I, the Lord, search all hearts and examine secret motives. I give all people their due rewards, according to what their actions deserve.” Jeremiah 7:9,10 NLT.
Moderator Hull
Thank you, Mr. Mamet, L’Chaim
Next week speaking for the proposition, Dr. Larry Alex Taunton, hopefully he will bring his best free Cuban cigars—we will provide ashtrays.
Bill Hull
Spring, 2024
[1] John 5:18
[2] John 5:39,46,47 New Living Translation. Moses is the author of the Pentateuch, the first five books of Bible. He is the third man in the Garden of Eden, he is reporting what Adam said, what Eve said, even what God said. He wrote about Jesus, yet the Pharisees searched and studied the Pentateuch and didn’t understand the Messiah and certainly didn’t connect Jesus with it. But Jesus confronts them with these words.
[3] 2 Peter 2:20-21, No prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet’s own understanding. Or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God.
[4] Romans 11:8 ESV says “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.”
[5] Willard was chairman for a short period @ the University of Southern California and was an esteemed professor until his death. Mother Theresa founded the Sisters of Charity, they are known world-wide. C.S. Lewis was asked an esteemed Oxford Don to comfort a nation through a series of addresses on the BBC, British Broadcasting Company. The BBC wanted a non-clergy so it wouldn’t be tainted or skewed by Anglican, Catholic, Methodist or Free Church bias. The notes were later made into a book, Mere Christianity. The idea of Manny behind the counter treating everyone as though they are Jesus and thus, making himself like Jesus is based on the words of Jesus in Matthew’s Gospel. “I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.”
Book available at Amazon in paperback, kindle, beta audio
